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	<title>Comments on: What Went Wrong in Detroit?</title>
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	<description>News from the Rustbelt</description>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://rustwire.com/2009/08/05/what-went-wrong-in-detroit/comment-page-1/#comment-578</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:06:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rustwire.com/?p=1986#comment-578</guid>
		<description>Based on my personal experience with Case (and without any data) the student population seems to have a lot of apathy toward both the school and toward Cleveland. I was once surprised to find that there are hundreds of people who don&#039;t even bother to pick up the unlimited-ride RTA pass that their tuition pays for or who rarely venture outside of the blocks around University Circle. There are simply way too many students that are anxious to bail after four years (or however long they are around). Whether or not the finger can be pointed at the school or the city or local businesses or anyone else for failing to retain some of these people, I don&#039;t know. But I think it makes a big difference and it could really change the dynamics and appeal of Cleveland.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Based on my personal experience with Case (and without any data) the student population seems to have a lot of apathy toward both the school and toward Cleveland. I was once surprised to find that there are hundreds of people who don&#8217;t even bother to pick up the unlimited-ride RTA pass that their tuition pays for or who rarely venture outside of the blocks around University Circle. There are simply way too many students that are anxious to bail after four years (or however long they are around). Whether or not the finger can be pointed at the school or the city or local businesses or anyone else for failing to retain some of these people, I don&#8217;t know. But I think it makes a big difference and it could really change the dynamics and appeal of Cleveland.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah Hartley</title>
		<link>http://rustwire.com/2009/08/05/what-went-wrong-in-detroit/comment-page-1/#comment-568</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah Hartley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 18:13:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rustwire.com/?p=1986#comment-568</guid>
		<description>I was 13 and lived in nearby Toledo, OH when the race riots of 1967 broke out and white people were scared. I just &quot;Googled&quot; &quot;Detroit Riots 1960s&quot; and read an account of what led up to them. I never realized how much racial profiling and housing discrimination people of color faced back then. After 5 days of riots and fires --  43 people dead, 1189 injured and fear that the riots might spread -- I will always think about those riots when I hear the word &quot;Detroit.&quot;  Anyway, I learned on-line that blacks were discriminated against for auto jobs and, of course, the auto industry suffered beginning in the 1970s, the city experienced major &quot;white flight&quot; and some established black neighborhoods were demolished for construction projects. It&#039;s no wonder there was a great deal of racial tension that lingered for a long time.  

I believe that most people with any conscience know that all people are equals and deserve equal treatment and opportunity.  But I think that the stuggling auto industry and lingering racial tension have been a double whammy for Detroit -- not to mention our new Recession.  I do think the attraction of people interested in the arts and historic buildings, including gays, would be helpful.  In Columbus, the mayor just renovated the old Lincoln Theatre near downtown which was once the seat of &quot;negro&quot; performance/culture.  Many African American and white people alike are excited about this wonderful venue and it is a testimony to how race relations should be.  I&#039;m a volunteer usher so I witness it.  In my usher orientation class there was an African American woman slighter older than I am.  It was embarassing when she said that she used to attend the theatre at Columbus&#039; Great Southern Hotel as a child, but that she was only allowed to sit in the balcony.  That was not THAT long ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was 13 and lived in nearby Toledo, OH when the race riots of 1967 broke out and white people were scared. I just &#8220;Googled&#8221; &#8220;Detroit Riots 1960s&#8221; and read an account of what led up to them. I never realized how much racial profiling and housing discrimination people of color faced back then. After 5 days of riots and fires &#8212;  43 people dead, 1189 injured and fear that the riots might spread &#8212; I will always think about those riots when I hear the word &#8220;Detroit.&#8221;  Anyway, I learned on-line that blacks were discriminated against for auto jobs and, of course, the auto industry suffered beginning in the 1970s, the city experienced major &#8220;white flight&#8221; and some established black neighborhoods were demolished for construction projects. It&#8217;s no wonder there was a great deal of racial tension that lingered for a long time.  </p>
<p>I believe that most people with any conscience know that all people are equals and deserve equal treatment and opportunity.  But I think that the stuggling auto industry and lingering racial tension have been a double whammy for Detroit &#8212; not to mention our new Recession.  I do think the attraction of people interested in the arts and historic buildings, including gays, would be helpful.  In Columbus, the mayor just renovated the old Lincoln Theatre near downtown which was once the seat of &#8220;negro&#8221; performance/culture.  Many African American and white people alike are excited about this wonderful venue and it is a testimony to how race relations should be.  I&#8217;m a volunteer usher so I witness it.  In my usher orientation class there was an African American woman slighter older than I am.  It was embarassing when she said that she used to attend the theatre at Columbus&#8217; Great Southern Hotel as a child, but that she was only allowed to sit in the balcony.  That was not THAT long ago.</p>
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		<title>By: schmange</title>
		<link>http://rustwire.com/2009/08/05/what-went-wrong-in-detroit/comment-page-1/#comment-564</link>
		<dc:creator>schmange</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 19:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I thought I might get some flack for that. I don&#039;t know if it&#039;s the same as Carnegie Mellon or Northwestern. Maybe I&#039;m baised because I&#039;m from Columbus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought I might get some flack for that. I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s the same as Carnegie Mellon or Northwestern. Maybe I&#8217;m baised because I&#8217;m from Columbus.</p>
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		<title>By: HHF</title>
		<link>http://rustwire.com/2009/08/05/what-went-wrong-in-detroit/comment-page-1/#comment-563</link>
		<dc:creator>HHF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rustwire.com/?p=1986#comment-563</guid>
		<description>I might be a bit biased on this front, but I think Case is more of a &quot;game changer&quot; than you give it credit... or at least they are working to become more of a &quot;game changer.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I might be a bit biased on this front, but I think Case is more of a &#8220;game changer&#8221; than you give it credit&#8230; or at least they are working to become more of a &#8220;game changer.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Special K</title>
		<link>http://rustwire.com/2009/08/05/what-went-wrong-in-detroit/comment-page-1/#comment-557</link>
		<dc:creator>Special K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 03:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rustwire.com/?p=1986#comment-557</guid>
		<description>Angie, thanks for this thoughtful response to the article. 

I was honestly pretty surprised how much I agreed with some this piece, given Frum&#039;s conservative credentials (fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, former Bush administration official, etc.)

His points about race relations and lack of strong cultural institutions are good ones, but I also agree  with your assertion that the sudden loss of a major industry is a serious blow no matter what - and that putting Detroit up against Chicago and New York isn&#039;t really a valid comparison.

As for the lack universities and other cultural institutions hurting a city, I think one only has to compare Pittsburgh with some of the smaller Mon Valley mill towns that had no large hospitals, universities, etc. to see the impact of those institutions.

I liked that he ended the story with a glimmer of hope:

&quot;Detroit confirms the lessons taught by Jane Jacobs and Russell Kirk. Preservation is as vital to urban health as renovation. Indeed, they are inseparable. The preservation of the old incubates the new.

It’s a lesson with application not only to Detroit’s past, but its future. The great factory complexes along the Detroit River have shuttered. America no longer manufactures here. Some will want to rip the factories down. Leave them be — leave them for now as monuments and memorials of the achievements of the past; leave them for the future, when somebody will want them. Want them for what? Who can say? Who in 1950 could ever have imagined London’s Docklands converted into condominiums? Who would have guessed that New York’s emptied toolshops would provide some of the city’s most coveted office space? The 22nd century will put the artifacts of the 20th to equally unsurmisable uses, if only we permit it. Cities can molder for a century or more, and then reawaken to a new era that rediscovers something of value in the detritus of an earlier time. Brooklyn did. So did Miami Beach. Ditto Boston and Charleston — and even more spectacularly, Dublin and Prague. The promise of renaissance may yet come true, even for the ghost city of Detroit.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Angie, thanks for this thoughtful response to the article. </p>
<p>I was honestly pretty surprised how much I agreed with some this piece, given Frum&#8217;s conservative credentials (fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, former Bush administration official, etc.)</p>
<p>His points about race relations and lack of strong cultural institutions are good ones, but I also agree  with your assertion that the sudden loss of a major industry is a serious blow no matter what &#8211; and that putting Detroit up against Chicago and New York isn&#8217;t really a valid comparison.</p>
<p>As for the lack universities and other cultural institutions hurting a city, I think one only has to compare Pittsburgh with some of the smaller Mon Valley mill towns that had no large hospitals, universities, etc. to see the impact of those institutions.</p>
<p>I liked that he ended the story with a glimmer of hope:</p>
<p>&#8220;Detroit confirms the lessons taught by Jane Jacobs and Russell Kirk. Preservation is as vital to urban health as renovation. Indeed, they are inseparable. The preservation of the old incubates the new.</p>
<p>It’s a lesson with application not only to Detroit’s past, but its future. The great factory complexes along the Detroit River have shuttered. America no longer manufactures here. Some will want to rip the factories down. Leave them be — leave them for now as monuments and memorials of the achievements of the past; leave them for the future, when somebody will want them. Want them for what? Who can say? Who in 1950 could ever have imagined London’s Docklands converted into condominiums? Who would have guessed that New York’s emptied toolshops would provide some of the city’s most coveted office space? The 22nd century will put the artifacts of the 20th to equally unsurmisable uses, if only we permit it. Cities can molder for a century or more, and then reawaken to a new era that rediscovers something of value in the detritus of an earlier time. Brooklyn did. So did Miami Beach. Ditto Boston and Charleston — and even more spectacularly, Dublin and Prague. The promise of renaissance may yet come true, even for the ghost city of Detroit.&#8221;</p>
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